Friday, November 4, 2011

THE FEAR CONTINUES

Just over a month ago, I wrote subsequent to the death of Archbishop Hannan and outlined some prayers that we all need to use.  Today, as I sit here, while Rhett watches the tv and our friends are secluded in their homes out of fear, I recall the past week or so and the horrors particularly of Halloween night and the deaths and victims of the gunfire that erupted in this city.  I read the words of those who post on news sites and I see some that continue the hatred that exists based on ancestry and my heart is heavy.  It does exist in multiple ways - some blaming it on people of one ancestry and others on another but we fail to blame each other.  It is time that we all understand that we are all responsible for what exists today, either because of our actions or because of our inactivity.  In reality it is the result of decades of true inactivity and failure to improve the lives of all that is the cause. 

On Sunday, the Brigade will attend religious services and gather on our verandah for brunch.  We each will bring something different.  We will discuss the same things.  We will feel the heartbreak that exists in this city, and, yes, elsewhere.  However, we still will believe what we have said time and time again - in IN UNITY WILL COME VICTORY

Our symbol of the fleur de lis in the colors of ancestries which created this city will remain as one of hope. 
DANS L'UNITÉ VIENDRA LA VICTOIRE; EN LA UNIDAD VENDRÁ LA VICTORIA;
単一性で勝利は来る; and the translations can go on and on.  This is a city of many cultures and languages over the centuries.  It is time that we unify those cultures - choose the best moral and legal standards and bring that victory and a Nouveau New Orleans.

Friday, September 30, 2011

THE STATE OF THE CITY

Today the Archdiocese of New Orleans is in mourning.  It has lost one of its former Archbishops, Archbishop Philip Hannan.  People of all faiths speak highly about him and are praying for him.  So do we, the members of the Velvet Glove Brigade.


We pray also that he may intercede on behalf of the citizens of this archdiocese that the violence that permeates our city may be halted.  We pray also that we as a people of faith (various as these faiths may be) might come together to halt the continuing crime, the continued decline of this city into the further depths of physical decay that exists in blighted properties, etc.  We pray also that work will  be available to all and especially to young professionals, who have left this city to find suitable work elsewhere in their professional fields.


We pray for the homeless that they may find shelter.   We pray for the mentally ill who have no place to go for treatment - long time treatment in particular.


We pray for the improvement in our schools and for parental involvement in the education of our young people.  We pray for the return of moral values that are so long forgotten. 


We pray for leadership that simply talks but cannot carry out its promises.  We pray that leadership and friends of those leaders will no longer use public funds for personal use.


What it comes down to, dears, is that we pray for a Nouveau New Orleans, a city of character and strength and hope for all and the destruction of the various factors that have divided it over the years into factions of hatred and ignorance.


May almighty God shed his blessing on this city, this state, and this nation.

Saturday, August 27, 2011

IN UNITY WILL COME PEACE

Last night the Velevet Glove Brigade met and had our usual gin and tonics on the verandah.  Some of the gentlemen preferred their Southern Comfort Manhattans.  However, all of our thoughts were on the state of this city.  Six years ago, on the morning of the 27th,  Rhett and I had packed and left for the plantation to the west.  We were worried and not only for ourselves but for some dear friends who we had to meet and escort to the site where we were going also.  Last night we all worried about friends and family members in the line of Irene.  Eventually our talk returned to the status of New Orleans.

We look at New Orleans not simply as recovering from Katrina, which caused the city and its citizens so many problems but we sincerely believe and looked at the city as having deteriorated over a long period time into a cesspool of crime and immorality.  It is a city that has been without leadership for decades.  It is a city that has been filled with the filth of people using the peoples' monies for their own selves - monies meant for improvement of the lives of many.  The substructure alone of the city had deteriorated as a result of the negligence of city leaders and was even more deteriorated by Katrina.  The school system had been destroyed by the lack of parental envolvement and proper oversight by the existing Board and other officials and yes the unions that represented the teachers.  Businesses of importance had long gone.  Canal Street was filled with stores of little importance and those stores that had once been there are now located in suburban areas.  Citizens were being taken advantage of by non-profit organizations of all kinds, whose leaders were using funds for their own purposes instead of for the people for whose lives those funds were given to improve.  However, what we often discussed was the cause of so many problems is the continued issue of racism and the hatred which it caused over the decades.  What we were seeing was a different form of the Civil War.  Katrina brought it to the forefront as was disclosed by Ray Nagin's infamous "Chocolate City" speech.  It is that same war that is being fought today but even beyond that point.  Children are killing children, young men are killing others over foolish issues, young women are bearing children without the hope of a decent life ahead.  The list goes on and on and all of you can add to it.  Yes, the Saints will play, Mardi Gras will come, etc.  Yet, this city cannot rely on those activities alone.  We must unite, as we have said time and time again, in order to achieve what we believe to be a New Nouvelle Orleans.  We must put aside all hatred.  We must show the young people of our city the value of an education.  We must instill moral values in our own lives and the lives of others.  We must elect people of principles and not simply because of their agenda or because of their support by certain groups of people.

Early in our postings online we stated the following:

WE THE PEOPLE OF NEW ORLEANS, in order to establish a more perfect union of all citizens, regardless of race, color, or creed, must unite as one in an orderly and logical manner to provide for the resurrection of our city.

THEREFORE, we propose the following logical propositions and recognize fully that this may affect more people of one kind than the other, but for the good of all this must be done and in order to form a more perfect union of and by all people:

1. The levees of this state must be completely overhauled in order to provide protection from the lowest of parishes, close to the gulf, to all of this state. City, parish, state, and federal officials have the responsibility to adhere to the recommendations of experts in the fields and to hire reputable and proven contractors to fulfill this need.
2. An orderly approach to the return of the citizens to this city is essential in order to provide them protection and to provide them suitable housing. We cannot allow people to rebuild without some provisions for housing that will withstand future storms. The come back all philosophy adhered to by some is foolish and indicative of negligence and continued abuse of the citizens by politicians, who see reelection or election and not what is logical and best. All housing must be adequate and all public housing must and shall adhere to the laws of this state and this nation. Codes must be enforced and indeed strengthened.
3. We must bring back our business, both large and small. We must provide for proper medical care and facilities that are the very best. We must attract the newest of businesses with technology of the present and visions of technology of the future. Businesses must be strictly regulated and must adhere to strict codes that must be put into place. While we admire the architectural beauty of many buildings, these too must be protected and yet updated to provide for the protection of quality businesses of all kinds.
4. We must provide public education (including higher education) for all that will provide students with challenges, provide teachers of ability and strength to accomplish that education. The school boards of this city and state must and shall be overhauled to eliminate the factors that have caused the collapse of education in this city and yes of this state. Boards filled with political cronies are no longer acceptable but quality boards consisting of well qualified persons are required.
5. We can no longer allow the issue of race and color to determine the future of this city. We must come together as one family for the good of all.
6. We must provide for a government of the people and for the people. This means that the government of this city (indeed of this state) must be overhauled in order to assure that it is streamlined, cost efficient, and provide respectful and quality services to all people of this city. This includes all levels of government including assessors, the court system, the police system, etc.
7. We, as citizens, have our duties too. We must elect officials of vision, not simply of promises. That is the very foundation of our constitution and necessary for the future of this city.

We the ordinary citizens of this city and state must be heard and must be followed. We ourselves must overcome our prejudices, our outmoded views, and look to the future of what we know can be and what we will continue to call the city of our dreams, the new Nouvelle Orleans.


Even today, we stand behind that original post.  We ask others to do the same.  Many years ago, even before I married Rhett, I saw Richard Kiley in the Man of La Mancha and I heard him sing those immortal words:

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go

To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star


This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far


To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause


And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest


And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star


We will not give in - we will continue to strive for what many call the unreachable star, THE NEW NOUVEAU ORLEANS.

Friday, August 5, 2011

THE TIMES PICAYUNE

The paper is celebrating its 175th anniversary. Congratulations. It is also asking for citizens to share memories. The Brigade wishes to encourage all citizens to do so. Louisiana will celebrate its 200 year anniversary as a state next year. Let's begin the celebration early by assisting the T-P with our memories. In reading some of the comments posted, I am bewildered as to whether people have learned any history of this city and this state over generations. It is time to start the lecture online and set the record straight on many issues. It is time to face the good, the bad, and the ugly. However, in doing so show respect, perhaps some humor, but most importantly share the truth and recognize the truth. In fact, I would encourage all forms of the news media to recognize the value of the T-P over the years and bring their anniversary into their own reporting. Let's begin the important dialogue that is so essential to a new Nouvelle Orleans. The Brigade wonders if the other news media has the guts and frankly the honesty to recognize what the T-P has done for this city over the years.

Monday, July 4, 2011

WE PONDER ON THE FOURTH

Dears, it has been some since I have written my last missive. Forgive the old lady but she has had some bouts of illness and has posted on the sites of local media. Alas, time does take its toll. However, I refuse to undergo surgery, botox, etc. Just a light covering of Noxema, dear. However, the city needs more than surgery, botox, etc. Even Noxema will not solve the problem. It needs leadership on local and state levels, reason, education, and a solution to the blight that continues. the crime rate, the blight, and the fight over Charity or its successor, and the lack of unity in this city because of the continued issue of racism.

On this Independence Day our group of friends, the Velvet Glove Brigade, will gather. It will be a moment of sadness because one of us is no longer here. She had to move to be with her family elsewhere. However, she is feisty as ever, dears. We also will sit and ponder the problems we mentioned above. We wonder what our founding fathers would say about this nation today. We also wonder what the founders of New Orleans and those that were here 200 years ago would have to say. WHAT A SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS!!!! We see the homeless on the streets and wonder what will happen not only to them but to those who are facing financial difficulties. We wonder about so much and feel so useless in our continued quest for a new Nouvelle Orleans. However, the battle will continue. We will do our best to seek a 200 year anniversary of this state as part of the Union next year. However, in the meantime, we will pray as we always do for a unity of people that is in reality the only solution to the major problems of this city, this state, and this nation. We must look past the issues of race, the issues of gender, the issues of sexual orientation, and look at each other as people only. We believe that all must be treated equally and with dignity. Only the person's actions will indicated that he/she should not be given that respect. Basic moral standards must be taken into consideration. Some will immediatly say that perhaps we are applying a double standard in the issue of sexual orientation, for example, but we believe that science will ultimately prove that such and orientation is scientific and based on genetics. Time will tell, dears. Off we are to fire up some fireworks. Have a happy and safe 4th, dears.

Thursday, May 19, 2011

TIME TO STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR UNITY

As we look back in time, we well remember the days of segregation and days of inequality among citizens based on the color of their skin, their ancestry. Even within those of African ancestry there was discrimination based on the lightness of the skin color. In the 60's came the Civil Rights Act and the resulting battles over the issue of desegregation, integration, busing, etc. Some fifty years later the battle still continues but the issue is now in reverse. It is the refusal of member of the community of Americans of African ancestry that discriminate against others by their determination to keep certain schools label as historically black and to refuse to allow individuals of other ancestries to join certain organizations, such as the Black Legislative Caucus. As taxpayers voting to elect individuals to local, state, and national office, we are appalled by such activity. Joseph Cao, while an elected representative to the United States House of Representative, was denied membership in the so called Black Caucus. This was true even though he represented a district, whose citizens were in the majority those of African ancestry. Even in the present day Congress bigotry exists based on ancestry. Frankly, he was later voted out of office based not on his qualifications or ability but on his ancestry.

Now the argument turns to the issue of SUNO and UNO. This city, which has lost a great deal of population over the years, and is overridden by crime, political shenanigans, etc. is still fighting the issue of color but in reverse. Here again on the state level we read of the Black Caucus arguing against the combination of these two schools. It is time to eradicate the so called Black Caucus or any other similar caucus and to demand that justice be granted to all and that an elected representative represents the best interests of ALL of his/her constituents. These school are long overdue for combination and revitalization. Standards have been lowered in colleges and universities throughout this city and state. That can no longer occur. Student attending one school, regardless of their ancestry, and who are qualified and will be able to achieve should be the issue. Time to stop the continued arguments based on ancestry. Time to turn our attention to the reasons why so many young men and women are ill prepared to attend a college or university. Time to question programs that have no results. Time to call to task those who are continuing the battle based on ancestry rather than on ability.

IN UNITY WE WILL FIND VICTORY AND A FUTURE FOR THIS CITY - the new NOUVELLE ORLEANS.

Saturday, May 14, 2011

SADNESS PREVAILS

It has been a while, since we have posted on this site. However, last night the Brigade gathered on the verandah for the beginning of our summer socials. The proverbial gin and tonics were served but we noted that some of the gentlemen were requesting Southern Comfort Manhattans on the rocks. We discussed the nearly six years since Katrina and the times before and what we have seen in our lives. Much, dears, much. However, our concerns last night came down to the present and the situation in the Police Department, the raging Mississippi River, and the opening of the spillways. Yes the department should be fully investigated and we were seriously concerned by the recent questions regarding Marvin Difillo. However, all of City Hall and all departments must be completely investigated. We have seen the destruction of nature throughout this nation and we find ourselves dwelling again on Katrina and it destructive power created by man made levees giving way. Now we watch as the spillways are opened and see those desperately trying to save their homes as they water will slowly extend over a large area in South Louisiana. Our prayers and thoughts were with them and will remain with them as they recover. However, in general a sadness still prevails for the city that could be but will not be for quite a while. We still wait for a new Nouvelle Orleans, a city of greatness, a city of unity, and a city of hope. However, the generations of hate, ignorance, immorality, lack of true leadership, etc. caused its decay and will continue to do so until all people realize that we can unify and we can be the Queen City of The South.

Sunday, May 1, 2011

OSAMA BIN LADEN

His end has finally come as the result of the bravery of many men and women, some of whom over the years have returned in coffins to grieving families. To those men and women and the men and women who actually brought him down, our grateful appreciation.

AGAIN WE SAY, BUT THIS TIME TO MITCH LANDRIEU

Tonight the Mayor of New Orleans was interviewed on 60 minutes. Again we respond to his remarks, what we said years ago after Katrina:

WE THE PEOPLE OF NEW ORLEANS, in order to establish a more perfect union of all citizens, regardless of race, color, or creed, must unite as one in an orderly and logical manner to provide for the resurrection of our city.

THEREFORE, we propose the following logical propositions and recognize fully that this may affect more people of one kind than the other, but for the good of all this must be done and in order to form a more perfect union of and by all people:

1. The levees of this state must be completely overhauled in order to provide protection from the lowest of parishes, close to the gulf, to all of this state. City, parish, state, and federal officials have the responsibility to adhere to the recommendations of experts in the fields and to hire reputable and proven contractors to fulfill this need.
2. An orderly approach to the return of the citizens to this city is essential in order to provide them protection and to provide them suitable housing. We cannot allow people to rebuild without some provisions for housing that will withstand future storms. The come back all philosophy adhered to by some is foolish and indicative of negligence and continued abuse of the citizens by politicians, who see reelection or election and not what is logical and best. All housing must be adequate and all public housing must and shall adhere to the laws of this state and this nation. Codes must be enforced and indeed strengthened.
3. We must bring back our business, both large and small. We must provide for proper medical care and facilities that are the very best. We must attract the newest of businesses with technology of the present and visions of technology of the future. Businesses must be strictly regulated and must adhere to strict codes that must be put into place. While we admire the architectural beauty of many buildings, these too must be protected and yet updated to provide for the protection of quality businesses of all kinds.
4. We must provide public education (including higher education) for all that will provide students with challenges, provide teachers of ability and strength to accomplish that education. The school boards of this city and state must and shall be overhauled to eliminate the factors that have caused the collapse of education in this city and yes of this state. Boards filled with political cronies are no longer acceptable but quality boards consisting of well qualified persons are required.
5. We can no longer allow the issue of race and color to determine the future of this city. We must come together as one family for the good of all.
6. We must provide for a government of the people and for the people. This means that the government of this city (indeed of this state) must be overhauled in order to assure that it is streamlined, cost efficient, and provide respectful and quality services to all people of this city. This includes all levels of government including assessors, the court system, the police system, etc.
7. We, as citizens, have our duties too. We must elect officials of vision, not simply of promises. That is the very foundation of our constitution and necessary for the future of this city.

We the ordinary citizens of this city and state must be heard and must be followed. We ourselves must overcome our prejudices, our outmoded views, and look to the future of what we know can be and what we will continue to call the city of our dreams, the new Nouvelle Orleans.

Mr.Mayor,some of this has been accomplished, but much still remains to be done. Show us that you can.

Saturday, April 30, 2011

TRAGEDY

The tragedies caused by the huge number of tornados and storms this past week are terrifying. One can only pray for the people, who have died, and for their families. It brings back memories of what happened nearly six years ago here in New Orleans. However, those memories are with us daily as we pass the blighted buildings, hear the promises of politicians, allow those politicians to make pie in the sky promises relative to new housing, a new hospital, etc. How much more will the citizens take.

Tuesday, March 15, 2011

JAPAN

As Rhett and I watched and read about the earthquake and tsunami in Japan, we cringed with horror and realized that thousands would be dead as a result of these catastrophes. Over the ensuing days as the news media gave additional reports and our government also responded, we prayed that there might be hope for some people thought to be dead. We watched as small children were rescued and prayed that their families would be there for them. We also wished, that we could have helped such a child but at our ages that would be physically impossible. Yes we can give money to various organizations that will assist those that are suffering. However, we believe that we need to pray for them to have the strength to renew themselves. This catastrophe will affect even the survivors for years to come - physically and mentally. Having survived Katrina by evacuating and returning to our home to find damage, which could be repaired, we recognize the toll it took on us and the heavier toll it took on others and much more of a toll that these tragedies will take on the citizens of Japan.

Yesterday Rhett was in a parish office and overheard a man say that "the Japanese will be much more resilient than those here in Louisiana". He had to agree because he is well aware of those who took advantage of the hurricane to steal, to loot, and to steal through various ways even as New Orleans and surrounding parishes are struggling to recover. We did not see that in Japan. We saw immediate action taken by the government of Japan and the assistance being provided from all over the world. Even as the threat of further nuclear disaster continues, we still believe in the people of Japan who will work together to do what is needed. May God Bless them with the courage to do so.

Tuesday, February 22, 2011

TIZZY NUMBER TWO

Well, this morning I went online and found it absolutely impossible to make any comments on the Times-Picayune's website. It was almost as if I had been erased. Well, dears, I am still alive and full of vinegar as usual. My that disaster in New Zealand was absoultely terrifying. We pray for all those who are suffering so much. Then we read about more blodd on the streets and our blood begins to boil. Time to get on real grip on the reality of this tragedy also. Now we read about that Federal Judge and his questionable instructions in the Gill Pratt case. So much to write about and the T-P must be working on its site inasmuch as there are so few comments. Well, I have worked some of it out of my soul and now will be on the watch. I note that I have to make some changes on my posting information. I have given up some of my sites - just too damn busy to take care of all of the. Ta, ta, dears. Will be back soon - one way or the other.

Saturday, February 19, 2011

A TIZZY

Well, dears, I am simply in a tizzy this morning. I just read about that guy in Jefferson Parish, who is the assessor. Now what is his name? I should remember it because his father tricked everyone in order to get him the job. Let me check the parish website. Oh, Chehardy. My the mind is getting dull (watch it!). Why does he get in the paper with his blog and I do not. I think the Times-Picayune would find some of my remarks most amusing to some readers. Well, I read it online and no longer pay for it. At least that is one important thing. Oh, how I remember my dear father reading the Picayune, then the States, and then the Item. Then the two, the Picayune and the States-Item and now in my day and age only one. Good thing is that at this point it is free.

Wonder how much Chehardy gets in retirement? Now, enough about him. Let's get down to brass tacks. The politicians will be heaving their expensive lunches in Jefferson soon enough. They won't be able to afford those expensive boots that at least one of them wears.

The issues on my mind this a.m. are three. Newsweek's description of New Orleans as the number one dying city and the debacle about the combination of SUNO and LSUNO and the causes of so many problems.

1. It has been dying for decades. Katrina merely hastened its possible demise. The cause, dears, is simply the continued moral decay. When we speak of moral decay, we refer to the criminals that have been and are in political office, the destruction of public education, the failure of the family unit, the continued fights along ancestral lines, etc. It is time to put some of those issues on the line and start the improvements. The tales that could be told are numerous and time does not allow me to mention all of them.

2. Stop the bull about the unification of the colleges and get on with it. Let's remember that an education is more important than the ancestral background of its staff and students. It is long past the time that Ruby Bridges made her famous walk and people are still fighting but this time it is coming in the form of reverse opposition. Remember first and foremost we are all Americans. Time to break the status quo and time to move ahead.

3. The reality of the city of New Orleans is that much of it is reclaimed marshland. You take your chances when you build in these areas. However, careful planning and building might alleviate some of the possibilities of flooding. Those people in Lakeview that are complaining about lost land should remember this. However, they should be paid for the land taken from them. Start putting people to work and let's tear down the blight. You got criminals in the jail - chain them up and start them working. Work for a living - no free rides for convicted criminals. This one will allow me to be called racist. However, criminals come from all ancestral lines. Free men died in New Orleans while building that old canal and their ancestry was Irish. It was cheaper to pay them than to lose a slave of African ancestry. Neither those of Irish descent and those of African descent should have been treated in that manner. However, when it comes to convicted criminals,working on non-dangerous jobs should be allowed. However, many jobs are dangerous just because of the criminals walking the streets of New Orleans. Young people dying while those in the know refuse to come forward and identify the perpertrators.

Well, enough for this morning. That lazy husband of mine, Rhett, just got his gorgeous self out of the bed and I have the coffee brewing. Wonder what he will fix me for breakfast. Oh yes, dears, I do have him trained.

Sunday, February 6, 2011

DEARS, WHERE IS THE CHANGE?

Well I note that few are following my blog but frankly, dears, I don't give a damn! So much has been going on in these days that it is hard to believe that soon this city will be celebrating Mardi Gras, much later this year, however. In the meantime Rhett and I have been running the heat and surviving the cold. However, our darling children are braving the cold this week in Manhattan, while we drink Manhattans to keep warm here. We cannot even sit on the verandah. Now for a few things:

1. Mitch, dear, get on the ball. Stop the promises and walk the walk.

2. We need professionals working downtown and not simply living there.

3. We congratulate the new Chief of Police - he is trying at least.

4. We note some more crime in Jefferson Parish - even on the same street that Newell resides on. Car thefts and thefts from cars are crimes, Newell, dear. Your staff caught them and the guy who robbed the poor woman at the ATM. He lived close to you also, did he not?

5. The census indicates some loss of positions by some political hacks. Which ones remain to be seen. However, gerrymandering is not the answer. If not, what about one district alloted that would contain a majority of Irish voters.

6. Those archives from the Archdiocese might be interesting, if you can actually read them and catch the hints that are available and recognized by experts in ancestral research.

7. Well Anderson Cooper will be here for Endymion. I wonder if he wishes to interview me?

8. Start talking more, everyone, in every way possible about improvements in employment and education. Unification of colleges and universities are essential to provide quality education to those who wish to learn and not simply take up space.

Well, I think that is enough this morning for this poor old lady. The arthurwrites is getting to me. I wonder about those programs that allow you to speak and they automatically write what you have said. Oh well, the cat just came to tell me that she wishes to be fed. The two dogs woke me up and I had to let them out in the cold. I refuse to put their mink coats on them. The cleaning bill was atrocious last time. Say a prayer today for the future, dears, regardless of the faith you practice or claim to practice.

Monday, January 3, 2011

JANUARY 3, 2011 - DEATH WALKS

As I examined the news this morning, I discovered that I had made an error. An examination by the coroner's office indicated a death had occurred on January 1, 2011 and now a second on January 2, 2011. The first had resulted from knife wounds inflicted three days before. Now the bell of death has rung twice. How many times will it ring this year. It is time for some actions to be taken to avoid these unnecessary deaths. When we read the obituaries we realize that so many also have died from natural causes. These are hard for the families to accept also. However, as the families mourn they can understand the cause. Indeed I have also read of new scientific discoveries that might alleviate the deaths caused by cancer - a new blood test to be examined by four leading medical institutions. May that lead to longer lives for many and may that discovery lead to people using their lives in meaningful ways. BUT THE QUESTION REMAINS - HOW DO WE STOP THE MURDERS IN NEW ORLEANS, ITS SUBURBS, AND EVEN IN THIS STATE?